Gun Digest editors know guns so you know guns. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Buttstocks of duck guns had lead slugs inserted into the wood beneath the recoil pad. The era of the double gun was ending as World War II approached. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. It won't be a collector but a shooter and should draw some attention. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. It was an immediate success. I also have seen a few in my day where the solid rib was removed and actually sent a customers Black Diamond to Simmons back in the seventies to put a vent rib on a solid rib gun. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. Saint Charles, Missouri. Another sign of an after factory rib were the numer of 30" Full field guns later ribbed either with Simmons or MoneyMaker ventilated ribs, but the top milled groove in the receiver was a dead-give-away as to that, and when the Model 12 ruled the ATA roost, I am sure many "newbies" bought those modified and restocked field guns and thought - "Wow- now I have a Model 12 Trap gun- look out Vandalia, here I come"--I have several post 1935 12 gauge Model 12 buttstocks and also 18 ring forearms in my "parts boxes, also older logo and non-logo repro 12 gauge black bakelite buttplates-the 16 and 20 and 28- all on the same size receiver, take the same stock configuration. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". (no choke stamp on barrel). There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. To elaborate on lowgun's response, the "round post" rib was made by Simmons, not Winchester. JavaScript is disabled. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. , Excellent Winchester Model 12 12 gauge Deluxe Skeet gun with factory issued Cutts Compensator. It is at my engraver now. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. The Model 12, already 23 years old, was one of many successful designs by Thomas C. Johnson. A Simmons Rib has been added to the barrel and the metal was refinished. The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. Yes the 2-pin milled rib was costly to manufacture. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. Winchester proof steel is chrome-molybdenum steel. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 Johnson, at once one of the great gun designers and one of the least known, produced a steady flow of new firearm designs for Winchester. This was a result of the Watrous report, which recommended that many of the slow-selling options be discontinued following the war. Twelve magnum guns grew lighter over the years and consequently kick harder. Produced in 1961. I am anxious to get it back from the engraver. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. And unlike our competitors, it extends beyond the buying process. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. Winchester undertook preparations for improvements in its firearms line following World War II. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. Winchester cautiously claimed 70 to 75% pattern in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. Jack OConnor was there and sets the scene nicely in the Complete Book of Shooting. "Metal parts of the Model 12 are machined from chrome-molybdenum, the toughest, longest wearing and finest gun steel known." Barrel lengths were 30 or 32 inches, but 32-inch barrels were discontinued in 1948. By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered. Writing in the March 1927 issue of the American Rifleman, Askins reports that his Remington Model 10 12-gauge pump averaged 89% of 1 1/4-ounces of shot in a 3-inch circle at 40 yards. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. This combination, which averaged 83.6% at 40 yards, averaged 44.2% at 60 yards! I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. Manufactured in 1962. The slide lock is automatically released by the forward nudge of recoil in the Model 12. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun . Mfg 1917, 25" Barrel, Mod, Correct Forend and Buttstock, Small chip out of toe of butt plate, Wood is not damaged, Good Bore, Pictures show condition, Buyer pays 50.00 shipping Pa residents add 6, This Winchester Model 12 is a post 1972 gun with a "Y' prefix serial number. 12 Gauge, For sale is the Winchester Model 12. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. In fact, Madis states Any twelve gauge Model Twelve could be re-chambered and reworked to shoot three inch shells for a small additional charge[by Winchester], yet few guns were reworked in this way. I can find no external differences in receiver dimensions, other than the ejection port, between standard and magnum versions. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Nash Buckingham was one of the great duck-hunting writers of the period. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Mechanically excellent. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. Manufactured in 1959. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. "SN:561491. customers to the absolute best of our abilities. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. Winchester designed the Model 42 to use the new shell and the combo went to market in 1932. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. Also available initially were standard trap and special trap grades. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. Instead of buying a gun thats Deluxe checkered walnut, Its new in the original box with associate paperwork in wrapping paper.. has mi, Metal surfaces rate very good, handling marks to wood. Westerns copper-plated shot, introduced about 1925, extended shotgun range even further. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. Model 12 duck guns are highly specialized tools for a very limited number of duck hunters who can regularly center a duck at 40-60 yards, and need to. THE SHOTGUN HAS A 30' PLAIN BARREL AND IS FULL CHOKE. I hunker down and blaze away. I sold 41 model 12's and 21's at a gun auction in Wichita Kansas to accommodate the move. later on flinching became a problem with 12 gauge shooters becouse of 300 round tournaments. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. No. says Madis. Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Classic Browning Light Twelve Auto-5 Review: Busting Clays With the Old Humpback Shotgun. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. It is in excellent condition with only light handing marks, Used Browning BT99 Plus 12 gauge 28" bbl fixed choke mod good condition no box no manuals Buyer pays shipping Millers Gun Center Located in New Castle, Delaware "Home of TAX, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 16GA PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN, 26" BBL, 2 3/4, POLY CHOKE, RIBLESS, EJECTORS, SINGLE TRIGGER, MEDIUM DARK FIGURED WALNUT, PISTOL GRIP, LOP 14 3/8, 1 1/2, 2 5/16, 7LBS 3OZ, 985 BLUE, Winchester. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing The Model 12 was about 40 percent more expensive than the '97, yet it consistently outsold its older brother during the 45-year-span they shared in the Winchester catalog. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. Winchester Model 12 Shotguns For Sale Shotgun Winchester Model 12. Winchester ~ Model 12 Trap ~ Pump Action Shotgun ~ 12 Gauge. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Down pitch remained 2-1/2 inches with the 30-inch barrel throughout production. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. Very Good example of a Model 12 26 inch poly choke with vent rib 12 ga. Other conditions: Phone 715-478-0404 within 48 hours to confirm payment, . The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. Something went wrong. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. Its even harder to find a 2-barrel set 16 gauge. Very good condition overall. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Here's what it's like to shoot this classic scattergun. He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Thats like spending 12 days straight day and night. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. The help you need is to get a life. Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. Smith brand, by the A.H. Fox Company of Philadelphia, by Parker, and by Ithaca. Has 30" barrel choked Full. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. It looks like it is in very good shape. Both guns were disassembled, cleaned and lightly oiled before testing. Action works very nicely. Simmons also removed Solid Ribs from barrels and added his rib to those barrels. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. WARNING! Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. If not it has been shot very little and stored under the right conditions. . The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. At Guns.com, if an FFL is These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. It has the long action slide handle. The magnum led to new class of long-range double-barrel shotguns for waterfowl. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. That way, were helping small businesses in Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. Buckingham had a solid 60-yard duck gun and was on his way to becoming a legend. The takedown joints are tight (See the instructions in Madis book if your Model 12 has a loose take-down joint). A smothered roar from around the corner! Buy Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 973937149 . I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." Simmons vent rib installed. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. L.O.P. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Important to note that this gun was made in 1956, the first year for the round post factory installed Special Ve, FOR YOUR VIEWING IS A VERY NICE WINCHESTER MODEL 12 in 20 GA. WITH A VENT RIBBED 26" BARREL AND IC CHOKED. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. MAKE OFFER. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. Including this gun, they found a total of 4 gun with a 1919 date. very accurate description and fast delivery, HOCH Reloading Single Cavity Mold c56 309170 .309 170gr nose pour NICE (#334593408927), Arrived quickly, well packaged, item is as described. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. No Reserve. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Modified choke. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. Guns.com's selection won't leave you feeling unprepared. Stock has a Monte Carlo cheekpiece and European pistol grip with a right hand palm swell. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. You are also correct that the different rib styles used on Model 12's can get confusing..EG. Bore is excellent. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Introduced in 20 gauge in 1912, 16 and 12 gauge guns followed in 1914. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 By signing up you agree to Guns.com's Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. Winchester Model 12 in 16 ga with a 26" barrel with a full choke. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! 1935 3" magnum offerd, will convert all 12 gages if wanted to 3" magnums, the begining of the long forcing cone. This shotgun is in near new condition in the original box. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. Pandemonium! Full choke was the only standard boring available. to be finishedat least thats what Stadt says in his book"Winchester, Shotguns and Shotshells"very interesting book.a little different look at M-12 than Madis and Riffle.WC. The Model 12 duck guns are still as suitable for waterfowl passes, fox trails or the habitat of the wary gobbler as they were when the duck hunters at Winchester surprised the market in 1935. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. Model 12 Skeet Pump Shotgun. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. 28" vent rib, full choke barrel with front bead sight. But for some reason, buying a gun online can . I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. This is a shotgun I should never have sold. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. George Watrous, a longtime Winchester employee with many talents, was commissioned to investigate the good and bad points of Winchesters pre-war line and make suggestions for postwar improvement. Alarm calls! . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Come join the discussion about targets, clays, hunting, gunsmithing, gear reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Title. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. I am planning on shooting it at the Grand Nostalgia shoot. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB The extra weight is meant to soak up the recoil of what once was thought to be a very hard-kicking load. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 22 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Whether you're looking for a truck gun, something for the bug out bag, or a do-anything firearm we have you covered. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. Recent 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge shells will create dangerous pressure in the 3-inch duck gun chamber. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Total production reached two million. I would think if you did shoot you proble flinch like heck becouse ther must be a lot of jerk in you. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. Buckinghams tests led him to buy his own custom Super Fox, Bo Whoop. Bo Whoop patterned about 90% at 40 yards with specially bored barrels. 12 Gauge, This is a very nice Winchester Model 12 Trap pump action shotgun in 12 gauge. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs.
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